Legislature(2003 - 2004)
02/03/2003 03:32 PM Senate RES
| Audio | Topic |
|---|
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
SJR 4-ENDORSING ANWR LEASING
SENATOR TOM WAGONER, sponsor of SJR 4, introduced Kurt Olson,
his legislative assistant, and asked Mr. Olson to describe the
resolution to the committee.
MR. OLSON told committee members that the intent of SJR 4 is to
urge Congress to open the coastal plain of the Arctic National
Wildlife Refuge (ANWR) to oil and gas exploration, development
and production. North Slope production has been declining since
1988, when peak production reached 2 million barrels per day.
Current production is approximately half of that amount.
Development of the coastal plain would provide stability to
national energy demands while increasing Alaska's revenue
stream. SJR 4 has two zero fiscal notes from the Departments of
Natural Resources and Revenue. He thanked members for their
consideration of this legislation.
CHAIR OGAN acknowledged the presence of Senator Stevens and
opened the meeting for questions from members.
SENATOR ELTON referred to language on page 3, line 10, which
states, "the legislature is adamantly opposed to further
wilderness or other restrictive designation in the area of the
coastal plain...." He asked if that language will get in the way
of further restrictions on an over-the-top gas line route at the
state or federal level.
MR. OLSON said it will not, to the best of his knowledge, but he
deferred to Mr. Myers for a more definitive answer.
MR. MARK MYERS, Director of the Division of Oil and Gas,
Department of Natural Resources (DNR), said he does not believe
that language will affect any additional restrictions. He said
the legislation is a resolution from the state that makes
recommendations to Congress. It should not unduly restrict or
bind the federal government from creating further wilderness
status lands.
CHAIR OGAN concurred with Mr. Myers' assessment and added that
language says the legislature supports a gas pipeline.
SENATOR ELTON expressed concern that the words, "opposed to
further wilderness or other restrictive designation" might be
interpreted to mean that the State of Alaska or the federal
government could not take any action to preclude an over-the-top
gas pipeline route because that would be a restrictive
designation in the area of the coastal plain. He said he would
hate to see the legislature suggest to Congress that it ought
not do that.
CHAIR OGAN said it is his understanding that putting any part of
an over-the-top gas pipeline on ANWR is not an option, which is
why a gas pipeline would have to be built offshore.
SENATOR ELTON emphasized that the language says, "in the area
of." He said if Mr. Myers is comfortable with the language, he
will not push the point.
MR. MYERS responded that he is not sure of the legal nuances
but, in terms of the state waters offshore of ANWR where the
pipeline is proposed, such restrictions do not exist. He
indicated the coastal lagoon areas are too shallow for a gas
pipeline so if an offshore gas pipeline were built, it would
have to be buried below the ice [indisc.] zone in sufficient
water depth, which would be in waters without those
restrictions. He said as far as the onshore designation goes, he
does not believe any rights to put pipeline facilities in ANWR
itself exist so, without a change of the current designation, it
is currently restricted. It is not likely that Congress would
put any further restrictions on it.
SENATOR ELTON noted that one problem he has had with all ANWR
resolutions is that they have been focused on production. He
asked Senator Wagoner if he would consider adding another clause
to link ANWR production to fuel conservation efforts. He
explained that SJR 4 would then couple the notion of energy
dependency with fuel conservation measures, as well as new
production.
SENATOR WAGONER said he would have no objection to adding such
language.
SENATOR ELTON suggested adding the following language on page 3,
line 14, after the semicolon:
and that ANWR production be linked to fuel
conservation efforts and be it further resolved;
CHAIR OGAN asked Senator Elton to provide committee members with
written language for later consideration.
SENATOR ELTON asked if the Chair planned to hold the resolution
in committee.
CHAIR OGAN said he did not.
SENATOR ELTON asked the Chair if he was suggesting that the
amendment be offered on the Senate floor.
CHAIR OGAN said when he asks that a bill be amended in
committee, he brings written language to the committee. He again
asked Senator Elton to provide the proposed amendment in
writing.
3:40 p.m.
SENATOR LINCOLN asked if SJR 4 is identical to the resolution
passed by the legislature last year.
MR. OLSON said it is.
SENATOR LINCOLN referred to the language on page 3, line 14,
that reads, "to the maximum extent possible" and said she
considers those words to be "weasel words." She said she
understands that Congress cannot mandate that the state's work
force be used exclusively. She suggested that phrase be deleted.
SENATOR WAGONER said he would consider Senator Lincoln's
suggestion.
CHAIR OGAN pointed out that as much as he would like to mandate
Alaska hire, the state has its hands tied by the Interstate
Commerce Clause of the U.S. Constitution, so he believes that
language is appropriate.
SENATOR LINCOLN asked that Senator Wagoner consider changing
that phrase. She then commented that she understands that the
majority of Alaskans support the opening of ANWR and its
potential for Alaska's economy. However, she represents the
Gwich'in tribe, which is very concerned about opening ANWR. She
has long felt that the Porcupine Caribou Herd is intricately
tied to their lives and that any disturbance to that herd would
be the demise of that tribe. The Gwich'in people use that herd
for food, clothing, shelter and religious purposes. She does not
feel that sufficient protections are in place to guarantee the
herd will not go in another direction. For that reason, she has
consistently opposed development in ANWR. She noted she will not
object to moving SJR 4 out of committee, but she will not
support it on the Senate floor.
CHAIR OGAN said with all due respect, he has killed many caribou
and has found them to be the dumbest animal he has ever
encountered other than domestic sheep. As long as one doesn't
act like a predator, caribou will walk right up to a hunter. He
felt, regarding oil development in ANWR, if the herd is not
harassed, it could care less. He said he knows people who have
watched caribou calve within sight of production platforms. He
said the same fear was expressed during development of the North
Slope yet the number of caribou in that particular herd has
increased six times since that area was developed.
SENATOR LINCOLN said he has heard that sentiment expressed
before but her mother speaks about growing up in Rampart and how
she could have literally walked across the Yukon River on the
backs of caribou. However, those caribou changed their migration
route for several reasons and, during her lifetime, there has
been no caribou herd in Rampart. She said she thinks it is
possible that could occur again. She noted her point was to let
the sponsor know her position on the resolution and that it has
nothing to do with his sponsorship.
SENATOR ELTON moved to adopt Amendment 1, which reads as
follows:
Page 3, line 14, following "extent possible;" add
and that Arctic National Wildlife Refuge production be
debated in the context of fuel conservation efforts;
CHAIR OGAN objected and said he believes it is unnecessary to
tie a CAFÉ [Corporate Average Fuel Economy] standard to SJR 4.
Congress may wish to do so but he believes putting it in SJR 4
might weaken Alaska's congressional delegation from getting ANWR
open.
SENATOR ELTON noted he used broad language to craft Amendment 1
to merely suggest that ANWR production be debated in the context
of fuel conservation efforts. It doesn't make the impact of the
resolution contingent upon anything happening to the CAFÉ
standards.
3:50 p.m.
SENATOR SEEKINS maintained that ANWR development could be
debated in many contexts - independence on foreign oil,
employment, and others, and he believes Congress will look at it
in all of those contexts.
CHAIR OGAN concurred and said the current advertisement that
implies that SUV drivers are supporting terrorism could be
stretched to mean that opponents of ANWR development support
terrorism. He said he would like to add that to SJR 4 but does
not believe it would be constructive.
SENATOR ELTON felt that defeating the amendment will narrow the
argument.
CHAIR OGAN asked for a roll call vote. The motion to adopt
Amendment 1 failed with Senator Stevens, Dyson, Seekins and
Chair Ogan opposed, and Senators Wagoner, Elton and Lincoln in
favor.
SENATOR SEEKINS said he recently read that the United States
Geological Survey (USGS) has looked at oil seeps and identified
the oil from ANWR as low sulfur sweet crude. He asked if that is
correct.
MR. MYERS said there are five point sources that can be typed
for generating oil. The USGS's recent work suggests that some of
the lighter, lower sulfur crude is from wells to the west of
Prudhoe Bay.
SENATOR SEEKINS suggested that exploration for that crude could
have added value from an environmental standpoint and it is less
expensive to refine. From that standpoint, the legislature is
bringing the debate into the area of fuel conservation.
MR. MYERS agreed that development of the lighter higher quality
crude with less sulfur would have positive environmental
effects, as well as a gas line from associated gas development.
CHAIR OGAN asked if a couple of wells have been drilled near
Kaktovik.
MR. MYERS answered that one well has been drilled by Chevron on
Native land near Kaktovik but the results are confidential.
CHAIR OGAN asked Mr. Myers if he has access to those results.
MR. MYERS said he does but cannot disclose it.
SENATOR DYSON moved SJR 4 out of committee with individual
recommendations and asked for unanimous consent. There being no
objection, the motion carried.
There being no further business to come before the committee,
CHAIR OGAN adjourned the meeting at 4:00 p.m.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|